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The Flame War

There is a website on which I am a member. It is mostly a site for photography enthusiasts, but as part of it, there are message boards integrated. It is typically a pretty friendly, benign place, but, at times, it explodes into random flame wars. The past few days have played host to a particularly amusing one. The text of which (along with some explanations) are below:

For ease of reading, my statements that are added after the fact are in red.

Background information:

A picture was posted by "eddo" that spurred a spirited discussion about the current military festivities in Haifa(sp?). There are tons of messages that come prior to the start of this, but most are unimportant. The thread starts here with "pthreads" alluding to some past event in which "eddo" apparently cited a thesis paper his brother wrote, but never provided the text of said paper.

lmao. maybe eddo's brother wrote another non-existant paper on it. » pthreads
pthreads... why are you being such a fucktard? » eddo
if it hasn't been copywritten why would i give it out to you? » eddo
I didn't ask you to give it to me, if it was truly his phd work it would be published and I could pull it up. and then yes, it would be as good as copy written, it would be published by his .edu and ripping it off would be foolish. » pthreads
not phd. masters. » eddo
and it has not been published yet. well, parts of it were published at MIT. i can try to get some info from him so you can get it yourself. » eddo
ah, well where did he study? I'm in academia, I can ask around about it. » pthreads
by all means, go ahead, that is what I asked for almost a year ago it seems. All I need is his name, I know somebody who did poli sci at MIT. » pthreads
tel aviv university. main focus was iran, as you know already.
i thought you were an emt? what do you do? » eddo
what does emt stand for? » CheValierXP
emergency medical technician » eddo
I've held a few careers, emt (for six years, my cert actually just expired this past year), I have/still do work in IT, and now I'm in academia (working full time/school full time) for Russian/Eurasian History. » pthreads
hence I have the resources to look up his paper.
Seriously, I'd be very intrested to see the apper that refutes what all other historians are saying, that Palestinians are not recent immigrants. » pthreads
wtf? » CheValierXP
Now pthreads explains what he means about the paper:
Chev: old thread, about last year (I'm actually trying to find it now). He claimed Palestinians were recent immigrants, and when I provided various links to history departments at various .edus refuting his statement, he said his brother wrote a paper with research backing it up. Needless to say, my simple request for his brother's name so I could look up the paper never was answered. » pthreads
I pulled this link, because it indicates the site this was culled from, and it's unreachable unless you're a member anyway.
chev: » pthreads
Time for the x-files esque threats of black helicopters and secret agents:
and i cannot give you his name because he works with the US gov't. do you want a knock at your door? i can arrange one if you'd like. » eddo
palestinians have more in common with jordan and egypt thank jerusalem.
they want what they can't have ONLY because the jews have always been their enemy.

historians? you mean your flop finkelstein! ha... you're so typical to continue bringing this guy up... » eddo
eddo, you are so laughably full of shit. he's publishing the work with MIT but there is not name attached to it?

yes, I'd like the knock at the door thanks. Calling bullshit on this one. » pthreads
you call BS on anything i say... nothing new. » eddo
so, your credentials please. wait, i'm gonna do what you do: bullshit! » eddo
My credentials as far as what? I'll back up anything I say with a reference eddo.

I called bullshit on your assertion that palestinians are recent immigrants. You busted out your brothers work as proof. I asked to see where this so called paper was. It never materialized. That gives me the right to call bullshit, it's not arbitrary like with you. » pthreads
pthreads has a point here.

people in "sensitive" govt. positions publish quite frequently, that really shouldn't be stopping him from providing the paper. » root
as i stated above, i will speak with him.

>>people in "sensitive" govt. positions publish quite frequently,that really shouldn't be stopping him from providing the paper.

we're not talking about the white house or an fbio desk clerk.. get my drift.
i'm sure he used a pen name and will see if he wants to use it, here.

>>I'll back up anything I say with a reference as far as your references go, they have been very one sided. i have posted both sides of the spectrum and you still call me bulshit... i will not post a linmk with you because it's just not worth it...

your credentials: are you a professor? or do you mop floors at a university? » eddo
what if israel kidnapps lebanese soldiers, what should lebanon do? » CheValierXP
eddo, fair enough. there are more than enough people out there who don't need their names thrown around, and for very good reason. Hope to see the paper soon enough though. » root
che, In that situation, I think lebanon should fuck israel's shit up. » root
eddo: "student full time"

I don't care what his real name was, hell, I don't care if he's really your brother. Show me something, anything that says the palestinians are recent immigrants. » pthreads
pthreads: ok. you said work. was confused. what's your focus/major etc » eddo
» thetophus [ this is good ]
At this point, I HAD to jump in... I mean, nobody is pointing out the absurdity:

"We're not talking about the white house or an fbio desk clerk.. get my drift. i'm sure he used a pen name and will see if he wants to use it, here."

Hold on... hold on.... I'm trying to get the tears of laughter to subside so I can write this...

Alright, I think I'm okay. So what you're saying, Eddo, is that your secret agent brother wrote a top secret masters thesis that is the only source of true knowledge about the recent immigration of palestinians?

Umm.. seriously?


Okay, sorry, that was immature. Your brother probably is a super secret agent. And he probably did write just such a paper. How about THIS then, how about you throw us the name of one or two of his citations?
You know, we don't need his paper, just where he got HIS super secret facts.

Oh, and we'll probably need his secret-sqirrel decoder ring to read the information when we get it.

ROFL... *secret... agent man... secret.... agent man"
» jer_
^DICK » eddo
no actually eddo could *gasp* be telling the truth. There are quite a few people who work at various agencies who would rather not be named, b/c being "well known" in ANY field would immediately disqualify them from working on quite a few projects. It's not that their "secret agents," people with certain access are told to keep a low profile - for a variety of reasons.

Although, why couldn't eddo just present some of the facts/references of the paper (if it's a masters degree - that's what it is - a collection and analysis of other peoples work) and provide those? No need for names. » root
for people like jer and pthreads, they're know it alls. pthreads especially, in past posts, has been brutal with discounting every and or any link i have provided and also (and i'm sure he never looked) any book i have referenced.

therefore, in my good judgement, providing a paper by my brother or anyone, will be useless. my brother does work for the US gov't and has expressed he does not wnat his name on his work or referenced anywhere. i could, in theory post his references, but I will not sit here and be mocked (not contructively critisized) by a so-called permanent "william hunting" student of acedemia who moonlites as an ambulance driver. i have asked on numerous occasions to "argue" off-line with pthreads and chev thru email, but they'd rather do it here where they have a soapbox.

On one occasion, when chev and i were arguing the validity of his family's heritage/history on/in the israeli land he said he had direct proof from a book that could be found in any middle east section of a library like the New York Public Library. Did he ever send me this reference? no he did not. why? probably because the book does not exist.

jer is a new maxxer and is probably a decent guy, but has charged at me like a bull (now he'll parade around saying i think he's trolling me) since i started posting these photos. he has jumped on the bandwagon...great.

Regardless of links or references (which in most cases never help a photo, i.e. newspapers use stock photos as filler all the time, i used to work at the NYT and this was practiced, they're relevant to the article, but not "real-time" photographs). Any photo i have posted here in israels favor is always propaganda. most of the photos that i have posted here, like the *argricultural* photos that show palestinians cultivating their land is truth (only if it shows them in a good light). i really do not care either way.

but the manner in which i have been critisized has not been on any sort of expert or professional level. so, in turn, i retort with sarcasm that they feel is a direct attack on their intelligence.

so be it. continue the mockery. » eddo
Actually, I mock anyone who makes up secret agent family members and illusory documentation. I believe that I took potshots at your current nemesis, chev, in a seperate post, actually. I don't have any personal axes to grind, aside from a predilection against made up facts and poorly executed logic traps.

Nice try. » jer_
Oh, sorry, I feel I should respond more specifically to your point, actually.

My only problems with "you" involve the posting of TONS of pics in a row when you do post, and your whining when you get tibbed.

Both are matters of personal preference (mine) and therefore, are virtually inarguable. When I get bored with your posts, I start tibbing, because, per the faq, they are something I "don't want to see anymore". I also tig pics that I enjoy and ignore the others. I do not tib often.

As far as the "coming at you like a bull", I have participated in several (spirited) discussions in which you were a part (and several more in which you were not a part) and I don't think you received worse or better treatment than anyone else that argues in such an absurd and illogical manner. Suck it up. My rhetorical style does not invalidate my points, such as they are. You made a wildly ridiculous claim that you know is indefensible and inattackable inherently, and therefore, were offended when I pointed out how stupid it sounds. Yes, you COULD be telling the truth. My mother COULD be the Queen of England, too. Both are similarly likely.

Oh, and, as the people here who know me irl can attest, I'm most certainly NOT a nice guy. :) » jer_
then you're not a nice guy. you're loss. my gain.

>>I mock anyone who makes up secret agent family members and illusory documentation.

yeah i'/m making it up. i never said he was a secret agent, that's your delusional mind creating truth for yourself. that's ok. but don't presume. if i could that up with something like a link i would, alas i cannot. whetehr you believe me or not does not concern me, but it would be best in your interests if you don't presume i'm lying, you sound like a fool.

the only tib i bitched about as of recent was sporkys tib on ONE of my posts. teh last time that happened was last year when a lys was just being a dick to be a dick... stop making shit up to make yourself sound like you're in the clear... i stated what i stated as fact and stuck with it. » eddo
My brother is a super secret government employee, and he wrote a masters degree thesis on what a dick you're being. » jer_
>>My brother is a super secret government employee, and he wrote a masters degree thesis on what a dick you're being.

I do not envy your children, the idiots they must be. » eddo
Actually, my brother (the secret agent) also wrote a masters thesis on how smart they are, but thanks for asking.

:) » jer_
I think it is important to note that, throughout this whole process, I cannot get the "Secret Agent Man" song out of my head... so please have that in mind when reading.. it makes it no more or less amusing.. but it does add a certain perverse sense of drama to the proceedings. » jer_
that is a good song. » eddo
I always thought he was singing "secret Asian man." » latecomer [ this is good ]
maybe he is... » eddo
>>che, In that situation, I think lebanon should fuck israel's shit up. » root

root, israel has lebanese priosners... » CheValierXP
^what's your point? this battle is really not about prisoners of war, you do realize that don't you? » eddo
what is it about? » CheValierXP
his brother could tell you, but he'd have to kill you » jer_
>>che, In that situation, I think lebanon should fuck israel's shit up. » root

root, israel has lebanese priosners... » CheValierXP

what are they waiting for?

(assumed response) They can't take on israel.

(my response to assumed response) then I guess the more powerful army wins. » root
exactly root, israel has one of the most powerfull armies in the world [mostly due to it's air force], it's like a bully backed by the police [in this, scenario george w. bush] the war on lebanon could have been solved by deplomacy, instead israel wants to use it's idle army that is capable of taking whole armies, this only a demostration of the israeli muscles and has nothing to do with hizbullah or anyone. israel can't show it's strength in gaza, cause it's considered as occupied territories it's very small area, and extremely dense with civilians, so israel chose another target, hizbullah was stupid in his timing, i should add, but still things must be said, like if israel made peace with lebanon before they withdrew, then disarming hizbullah would have been a very easy step, but israel still holds lebanese prisoners, still occupies parts of lebanon, what did israel expect, that lebanese just forget about them? » CheValierXP
^ that statement couldn't be further from the truth. » eddo
people differ in opinion. » CheValierXP
Dantooine... I mean Gaza ... is too remote to make an effective demonstration. But don't worry. We will deal with your Rebel friends soon enough. » root
yes they do. thankfully it's only YOUR opinion. » eddo
As has been said, you could simply post the references themselves. In addition, if you put it here under his psuedonym, nobody would know it was him. In addition to that, you are so obviously full of shit.

There is literally *zero* chance this is true. While people in Washington do publish under psudeonyms occasionally, it isn't AT A UNIVERSITY. No University would allow him to do that, least of which MIT. You can't get a masters under a psuedonym.

Thank you, come again. » pthreads
Oh, and I do work full time while going to school full time. Work == IT. Focus in Academia is Russian/Eurasian History, although I have done some work on non-proliferation issues in the Southern Tier of Russia (South Caucasus and Central Asia). » pthreads
full of shit, right... you're only fooling yourself overachiever., but i'm used to your BS rhetoric. in fact i get a good laugh when i see your name attached to it.

>>While people in Washington do publish under psudeonyms occasionally, it isn't AT A UNIVERSITY. No University would allow him to do that, least of which MIT. You can't get a masters under a psuedonym.

thanks you just made my point more valid. here hold my hand i will walk you thru it:

1. *While people in Washington do publish under psudeonyms occasionally... *, occasionally being key word.

2. *No University would allow him to do that, least of which MIT.* he published under his real name at the university b4 the job (stands the reason i will not give you his name).

3. *least of which MIT.* After graduating he got the job 9 months later and now uses his psuedonym. hmmm... you can call me whatever you want. my arguments with you and chev stay here, i really don't any of this name calling bs much thought outside of here. » eddo
also, your name? is it really pthreads? my name is in my tag. and i have also on numerous occasions posted my email here with a full name. with any luck you could have picked that up and done your own research. » eddo
Name and email address below pulled by me. I didn't suppose pthreads wanted his personal information ready by my plethora of readers :)
Xxxxx Xxxxxx

And if he published it under his real name, the one that he now has the job under, then they already know what it is all about. They didn't bother to ask him what he got his masters in? eddo, you are so full of shit man. There is no way this story is true. » pthreads
>>And if he published it under his real name, the one that he no whas the job under, then they already know what it is all about. They didn't bother to ask him what he got his masters in?

now you're just making an ass of youself? "whos is this they you're talking about?" the gov't? this convo shows how little you do know about privacy and the freedom of information act. good luck with that ignorance...

ok to you i'm full of shit. you know what that means? nothing? why? because you're nothing. you're a little bullshit student who works fulltime. wow... kudos to your skills big guns... kudos » eddo
Hold on... did Eddo "Secret Agent Man" himself just say someone ELSE is making an ass of themselves? Seriously?

Lemme recap.
* Eddo makes unsubstantiated claims about migration. Someone calls bullshit.
* Eddo cites his brother's masters thesis as a well researched source for his claims
* Someone calls bullshit and asks for a reference
* Eddo claims his brother is a super secret agent, then concocts some zany hijinx including a series of psuedonyms, a russian hooker, two bottles of scotch, a tuxedo and three penguins that is supposed to explain why he can't give a reference to his brother's "masterwork"
* Someone calls bullshit and asks for some of his brother's bibliographic citations then
* Eddo ignores this request, instead focusing on the accusations that his brother is NOT a super secret agent
* Machinations behind the scenes are set in motion to have the naysayers killed by a super secret government agency. Secret Squirrel and James Bond are deployed.
* Someone points out that Eddo is full of shit, and reiterates request for SOME form of evidence
* Eddo indicates that even IF he posts evidence, no one will believe him anyways, thereby negating the need for evidence to start with.
* Plato rolls in his grave at the hideous deformation of rhetorical logic employed by Eddo... planets are shaken by the irony
* James Bond and Secret Squirrel were given the wrong address, because the pseudonyminous "brother" can't betray his position by using Google Maps. After offing a slew of school children, they are given a new address for Chev, Jer_, Pthreads, and any other naysayers involved.
* Little did they know, Jer_ is *ALSO* a super secret agent, and his brother did a master's thesis on how to avoid being killed by super secret agents... thereby making him invincible
* Someone else points out Eddo's bullshit and requests information of ANY sort related to this alleged source of arcane knowledge written by Eddo's brother.
* Eddo mocks the requestor, subtly defusing the situation through employment of wit and intelligent rhetorical devices

(Okay, I made the last item up... Eddo isn't that bright, my bad)

That sound about right? » jer_
^let me recap: you're a fucking asshole who fondles his children. » eddo
Have those little bastards been talking again? I told them I'd kill them!

Umm... how about instead of name calling, false rhetoric, or whatever other bullshit you have handy, you do one of two things:

A) Give bibliographic references from this alleged paper (which would in no way give away your brother's presence)


B) Admit you lied, and lied poorly, so we can move on with a minimum of ROFL-itude » jer_
>>>Umm... how about instead of name calling, false rhetoric,or whatever other bullshit you have handy, you do one of two things:

and mocking me isn't the same? go fuck yourself you two-bit half educated asshole. » eddo
Umm.. if I could do that, I wouldn't be wasting time on here...

Mocking you is *NOT* the same, actually. I'm not the one making the ridiculous claims that Secret Squirrel is my brother, Morocco Mole is my father, and there are top secret, Davinci Code style documents produced in secret by my family that will blow the lid off this Palestine thing.

The burden of proof is on you... but... much like a politician, you opt to grandstand and make a big show of anything BUT the part where you can't back up your silly claims.

Just realize, while I'm off fucking myself and fondling my children and such, that we SEE that you're avoiding a real response to the topic, and we KNOW you're full of shit, and it's FUNNY.

It stopped being mockery when you decided to start mocking your own position. Now it's just sad and amusing in a "look at Chevy Chase's career pratfall again" sorta way. » jer_
nice ex-cuse. » eddo
And yet, you still duck it. :) We still notice! » jer_
did you graduate highschool? I bet you never even went to a university... your argument-style is that of a 10th grader.

what do you know about a thesis anyway? You clearly never wrote one. » eddo
no you and threads ntice it, no one else gives a shit. » eddo
My argument style? By that I assume you mean the way I stay on topic despite your attempts to derail the discussion onto topics that have nothing to do with your secret agent brother's master's thesis? Is that the style to which you refer?

Still avoiding, eh? » jer_
pthreads at least is a student at a univerity with some background knowledge on papers. alhough he too has no experience with a thesis, which is also quite obvious by his lack of knowledge on publishing as well. » eddo
when did i say i say i have a secret agent as a brother? that was your creation and off topic. » eddo
First, for what it's worth, you're incorrect. Badly. Second, what does this have to do with you posting just a LITTLE evidence supporting your claims? » jer_
be careful what you say... » eddo
Or your secret agent brother will come get me? *DUH DUH DUUUUUHHHHH*

Evidence? Got some? » jer_
i have posted hundreds of links in past agrguements with pthreads, some biased some not stating my proof. i have also referenced books. he has with his "expert <laughs hysterically> knowledge on the middle east" discounted everyone of them... so why bother with you a person with no education in any of this... you're here bothering me because you feel lonely in life and need an ex-cuse to feel loved. yeah i love you man... i love the fact that you have no educational background to prove i'm wrong without my references in the way. » eddo
yeah my sercet agent brother will come get you... well, i do know where you live... so.. maybe » eddo
chew on that.

/unsub » eddo
well look at the bright side jer_, we have 10,000 pixels of evidence. » CheValierXP
I don't care if you are right or wrong about your (laughable) claims. That point is secondary to the truly entertaining point: you falsifying claims about your brother's masters thesis. It has been requested several times that you post some of his citations to lend credence to your outlandish claims. You continually try to derail the conversation to avoid having to do so. The resultant belief is that you must be lying, and lashing out at anyone that points out your amusing lies.

Don't get all pissy just cause you lied. It's okay, it happens on the internet every day. Some undereducated chode like yourself makes some grand claim that he can't back, gets called on it, and refuses to back up his statement. It's all good. :)

What I find amusing is, you could make all of us that have pointed out your idiocy look stupid with just ONE link... ONE citation; but you're unable to do so. Instead, you commit yourself to personal attacks. I have the easy side of the argument, all I have to do is point out that you have consistantly failed to meet the requirements for the burden of proof under which you currently rest. I have no burden of proof, as you can't prove a negative.

Or, in common parlance: Liar, liar, pants on fire... » jer_